Synch Sound: Is there audio resolving software for

[Hanthx]

Mattias

Spent a good portion of the day with Konton discussing syncing sound via flash contact spikes or 1 khz pulses...this is good news!

Count me in.

Scott

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[#Pedro]

Sounds very good but does not substitute the synced projector for transfer to sound stripe or double system sound projecting.

When designing any soft- or hardware to align sound to film, I would like to remember one (stylistic) requirement, that so often is forgotten.
Every dss equipment should have the possibility to not only sync sound and film, but also allow to keep the sound of one scene to hold it for the following scenes, when no sync is requirerd. Or simply take advantage of sound that NOT bears the camera pulses.
For that reason, the tape recorders seldom were used with a direct start/stop control. For prof use of pulse sync, the tape recorders were running all the time, even beteen the szenes, capturing a not-chopped sound.
Another variation for the one-man team were the delay controled recorder, starting exactly with the camera but stopping only 1 minute after stopping the camera.
So you alway have sufficient sound to create a homogen soundtrack, with smooth sound cuts.
Nothing is more boring than that typical camcorder movies, with changing sound gain at every cut.
But even when combining very different scenes, the sound has to be handled with care to keep the continuity of the film.

F.e. filming first a marching band in a Bavarian village and afterwards some lonesome cows in the field eating green grass and only birds singing, the exactly synced sound cut would be more than awful. Loud brass sound - and the other second nearly nothing, only some wind, cows and birds. Even if that is reality and perfectly in sync, you need the brass band for a longer time than the camera had shot it. At least for a fade out into the following quiet szene. Unless you want to emphasize that contrasts.
Or if you shoot some sights of a town, overview szenes with traffic noise (in sync, if neccessary or not!) for afterwards coming closer to a special building or sth else. When being in close-up position, the camera lens filters the rest of the scene and crops the movement of the town, but the mike not. The traffic noise keeps the same, if not substitued with other sound, smoothly and over the cuts between the several takes.

I wanted to bring up this thoughts, for not forget that soundtrack is more than syncing, and thingking a little bit critically about that start/stop controled recording.
And when not making a real feature film - I think it happens very seldom, that you really use that correctly synced sound in the final project, rather than that autentic ambient sound, recorded during and in between the takes.

Pedro

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[Matt Pacini]

Yeah, I'll take a copy.
Email me directly & we can do the deal.

However, I don't want it if you do the update where it doesn't work if the camera isn't running, because I always verbally mark all my audio before I run camera, and I don't want to lose that.

You know, like have someone say the date, scene, take, setup, etc., any information that I think is relevant, THEN I roll camera and say a couple things and slate.
With these wimpy little 50ft rolls, I don't like wasting film for 15 seconds of being pointed at a slate while I read off everything, when all you really need on the actual film itself if the slate for a second or two, then clapping.

Also, the GUI front end would be cool.
I'm not a total stranger to the command line, but it would be nice...

Matt Pacini
[email protected]




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[Cranium]

Are most folks using a signal generator in-line with the flash socket, or just recording straight from the socket itself? It's not a huge deal, but it would be interesting to know. Also, I'm gonna try to get some storage space together if anyone wants to post some sample .wavs of their cameras. Looks like Mattias could use this, too.
Any interest? Or is this actually not as widespread a technique as I'd thought?



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Mikel Z

[mattias]

matt, right now when there's no sync signal present, the audio is skipped, or optionally speeds up to 200%. would that be ok with you for now? i'll have to make a few changes to the algorithm if i'm going to keep these parts intact, so it probably won't happen until the next update. slating is usually easy to hear even if pitched up, right?

/matt

[mattias]

> However, I don't want it if you do the update where it doesn't work if the camera isn't running

not a problem. it's a selectable option.

> Also, the GUI front end would be cool.

not a priority, but i will probably add it for version 1.2, which will be a free upgrade for all who buy 1.1 which will be ready this weekend.

> I'm gonna try to get some storage space together if anyone wants to post some sample .wavs of their cameras.

that would be awesome. i'd also be happy to upload the resolved results back so people can check the accuracy and sound quality. just email me with the location of the wav, and what speed you want it resolved to. 23.976 would be the normal ntsc speed, and 25 for pal, if you're not sure.

/matt

[Matt Pacini]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mattias:
matt, right now when there's no sync signal present, the audio is skipped, or optionally speeds up to 200%. would that be ok with you for now? i'll have to make a few changes to the algorithm if i'm going to keep these parts intact, so it probably won't happen until the next update. slating is usually easy to hear even if pitched up, right?

/matt<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess.
Hmmm. Sounds weird. Was this intentional, or a programming glitch?
Just curious...
So, is this software up and running, or still in Beta?
How buggy is it? (if at all?)
I'm just curious, since I don't have any audio files to test it with, since I haven't shot anything doing this.

Also, do you find there are problems with bleedthrough to the other audio channel, when recording the direct out from the sync output to the minidisk?
I would have never thought of doing that, but if it works, great.
(I have a Nizo 6080, by the way... I'm not sure if the sync is any different from other cameras)


Matt

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[Konton]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Matt Pacini:
Also, do you find there are problems with bleedthrough to the other audio channel, when recording the direct out from the sync output to the minidisk?
I would have never thought of doing that, but if it works, great.
(I have a Nizo 6080, by the way... I'm not sure if the sync is any different from other cameras)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know about other cameras either but I did it with my Nizo 6080 attached to my mini-disc player and a few other cables lying around the house. Listen to it yourself: http://server42.hypermart.net/super8...kodachrome.wav
Well, you know when I mean listen to it I mean pull it into a audio editing program and listen to each track seprately.

*augh* It's amazing what you learn when you take apart a Goko TC-20. Now where did I put that condenser lens . . .

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Konton the Grey

[mattias]

> Was this intentional, or a programming glitch?

well, let's say it's an artefact of the algorithm. i have to set a limit for how long the program looks for a pulse before it concludes there is none. this limit is the double wave-length right now, and i either throw that part away, or use the data as is. but since it's two pulses long, the resolved audio gets stretched by 200%. this can be easily fixed, but i have to make several changes to the algorithm and that's not top priority right now.

> So, is this software up and running, or still in Beta?

it's up and running, even though i consider it a beta version until a number of people have tested it. upgrades to the first non beta version will of course be free of charge. as will all upgrades until i make any major additions, as usual with any software.

> How buggy is it? (if at all?)

not at all afaik.

> Also, do you find there are problems with bleedthrough to the other audio channel, when recording the direct out from the sync output to the minidisk?

haven't noticed any with my md recorder. it could be a problem i guess, but much less so than with tape recordnings.

anyway, i'll start a new thread today, with instructions on how to use the program and so on. there will also be instructions on how to order.

/matt